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Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


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yep i used the petroleum jelly.

Nashou

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PaulB



Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 359
Location: Bonnie (but rainy) Scotland


PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:24 pm    Post subject: Re: VIM Reply with quote

Ohmess wrote:



What do you use for grease? Does petroleum jelly work?


Yep, Petroleum Jelly (Vaseline is the brand I used).

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geisemann
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PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use Silicone heat sink compound. Vaseline might work ok just not sure the long term reliability and resistance to heat of this product as its designed as a short term item for skin.

You can order new strips from Mouser and that is what I do when doing a rebuild now its not as messy as all the grease. I use a new strip then put a thin layer of Silicone heat compound.

The issue I have had when researching fans is there are very few really any better than the original.

The issue if you look at it carefully is the newer " Quiet Fans" use a resistor anyways.

In standby you don't need much airflow.

Everyone doing marquee mods are doing the same thing from using foam to rubber isolation from the chassis. I know Barco uses rubber on its fans . Some use foam but I am not sure again the long term stability of foam. Foam tends to deteriorate quickly under pollution and heat.

My opinion is to keep it simple it simple and I have tryed a lot with custom fans and special systems and the simple seems to work so well. You have to see the air the fans push from the specs. Typically the quieter the fan the less air they move .

Drill out the holes for all the fans mount 4 rubber gromments.

Screw in with larger screws only 2 of them.

Then use 2 15-23 ohm resistors in series with each of the stock fans

Or if you get fancy what I do when someone orders the mods I use a simple Zeiner AMP in parellel with a Thermo resistor. The Zenier controls the voltage when low but kicks in the Thermo resistor when hi its a very simple circurt. The resistance depends on the how loud you can take.

So by lowering the voltage to the stock fans you are creating the same effect as a so called quiet fan.

I have done this many times and it lowers the power supply noise over 95%.

You cant even hear it run in standby and it moves quite a large volume of air to keep things cool.

www.eisemann-theater.com
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AnalogRocks
Forum Moderator


Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 25437
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G


PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:
yep i used the petroleum jelly.

Nashou


This is the funniest thing I have read all day. Especially at the top of its own page. Laughing

Makes me wonder which thread I just walked in on Laughing

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WTS



Joined: 08 Mar 2006
Posts: 1227
Location: Calgary


PostLink    Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's the first time I've ever heard of using vaseline for heat compound, I'm sorry I just can't buy that it'll actually do the job. Either use proper heat sink paste or silicon pads meant for heatsink use.
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WTS wrote:
That's the first time I've ever heard of using vaseline for heat compound, I'm sorry I just can't buy that it'll actually do the job. Either use proper heat sink paste or silicon pads meant for heatsink use.


Hi Walter, I got the petrolium jelly idea form Mike parker maintenance thread, here is the post link

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=1937363&postcount=177

And the quote:

Mike Parker wrote:
Next, you'll want to clean that heat sink surface insulator (denatured alcohol) and apply a very light film of petroleum jelly on that insulator. Before reinserting the board, use a ruler or other flat device and align each transistor so that each one would be perfectly inline with the heatsink surface. Now take each heat sink clamp and bend back for better tension. Do the same for the vertical and stimator boards (if it has stimator board).


Athanasios

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Arno P



Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 282
Location: The Netherlands


PostLink    Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WTS wrote:
That's the first time I've ever heard of using vaseline for heat compound, I'm sorry I just can't buy that it'll actually do the job. Either use proper heat sink paste or silicon pads meant for heatsink use.


I agree, go for the real stuff. I expect that vaseline starts to drip off when it is heated (will look good when applied, but tricking aftersome time of use)

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radar



Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Posts: 72
Location: Sydney, Australia


PostLink    Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The issue if you look at it carefully is the newer " Quiet Fans" use a resistor anyways.

In standby you don't need much airflow."

So... what you are saying is that add the resistor and that will make it quieter and also reduce airflow (abit)... and you are saying it doesn't need as much airflow as its putting out anyway? Is that correct?
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

radar wrote:
"The issue if you look at it carefully is the newer " Quiet Fans" use a resistor anyways.

In standby you don't need much airflow."

So... what you are saying is that add the resistor and that will make it quieter and also reduce airflow (abit)... and you are saying it doesn't need as much airflow as its putting out anyway? Is that correct?


Yes thats what he means, I think both ways are ok , However, the fans I use work very well and ARE more quiet then using just the resistor. I do have a LVPS moded the same way Greg says and the Enermax fans are more quiet and have the same flow at 12 volts, i barely hear them in stand by but the flow is as strong in stanby as using the resistor on a powered up stock fan. I used my paper deflection measuring method. Tape a strip of paper on the outside of the marquee where the air exits the LVPS. turn it on and measure how far out the paper strip moves. i then put in the new fan and made sure it flowed out the same amount, By removing the grill pieces as in my pics it allowed for more flow also. I picked a fan that had more CFM then the stock fans because i have heard the PC fans are over spec'd.
I guess you can try both ways and see which you prefer. I have had this mod on my LVPS for more than a year with no issues at all, and i listen to music in my theater and sit next to the PJ and can not here them in stand by.

Athanasios

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Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

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PaulB



Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 359
Location: Bonnie (but rainy) Scotland


PostLink    Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Arno P wrote:
WTS wrote:
That's the first time I've ever heard of using vaseline for heat compound, I'm sorry I just can't buy that it'll actually do the job. Either use proper heat sink paste or silicon pads meant for heatsink use.


I agree, go for the real stuff. I expect that vaseline starts to drip off when it is heated (will look good when applied, but tricking aftersome time of use)


I don't think the Vaseline is being used as a heat compound as such, rather it is being used to keep the existing heat-pad strips from deteriorating. Only a very thin layer is used which keeps the heat-pad from drying out essentially. MP did state that proper heat compound can be used but I would imagine that could get quite messy whereas you don't really see the vaseline and is in such a small quantity it gets sort of absorbed into the heat strip.

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David_Web



Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 418
Location: Sweden


PostLink    Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cut four pieces of a rubber band and put it in each corner of the fan. Works really well. Did this for the belly fans.
The most sound problem I have now is the sound of air. Especially the belly fans. I guess putting a resistor their won't hurt that much as the air it not warm anyway. A little decrease in airflow will do a lot for turbulence sound.
It might have to do with the way I have the PJ mounted as the fans are directly visible, the bottom plate under the fans is also removed.

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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess the best way would be to put the thin layer of Vaseline on the entire heat sink insulator and then use the heat sink compound directly on each Output chip. This way you get the best of both worlds. I went with just the Petroleum jelly and had no dripping from heat, and the heat sink is more hot then before I cleaned everything all up.

Nashou

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Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

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geisemann
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PostLink    Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:55 pm    Post subject: heat sink pads Reply with quote

These heat sink pads have created all kinds of problems with high hours on many crt projectors.

Espically in Barco. I have seen when they get old and can actually form small holes.

The Barco 701 and 708 were so famous for these problems its almost standard to replace all the heat sink pads I had 10 once I sold where 9 of them had shorting issues with the heat sink pads at 3-5k hours.

I was working on one barco 1209s Horz card and it kept having weird shorting issues. It drove me nuts so I pulled out all the horz drive tranistors and found that it was arcing ever so slightly causing a short.

In a ehome once I was at a customers house and they had this weird convergance drift issue. I replaced the marquee heat strip all along the rear heat sink and it never came back.

So I do hightly recommend to replace this strip if you have over 10k hours or if the transistos are HV or over 100V.

IF they are LV then maybe you can get away with just using the compound.

www.eisemann-theater.com
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stefuel



Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 3352
Location: Green Harbor MA USA


PostLink    Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can buy small tubes of heat transfer paste at auto parts stores as many late model autos require this paste when replacing certain electronic parts. I think the tube I have is from Belden.
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Joust



Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 2430
Location: Almonte, Ontario, Canada

TV/Projector: Marquee 8501LC


PostLink    Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the best place to get it these days is a computer shop. you can buy a small tube of very good stuff for use on a CPU heat sink.
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Ohmess



Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Posts: 242
Location: Vienna, VA


PostLink    Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have an existing heat pad strip on my heat sink, and have both vaseline and heat transfer paste on hand. Questions:

Should I replace the heat pad strip? If so, are there any particular products people have had good experiences with?

Alternatively, should I remove the strip and replace it with heat transfer paste?

Or, should I just put a layer of vaseline over the existing strip?
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just use vasaline over the strip there unless it has breaks that would allow the metal to touch the back of the mosfets which you DON"T want. Then use the heat sink compound on each of the mosfet amps.

Athanasios

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Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

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Ohmess



Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Posts: 242
Location: Vienna, VA


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Athanasios, I have a question for you on the mods in this thread.

Obviously, you have put a lot of time and energy into experimenting with these mods. And by the way, your instructions with the very clear pictures have helped me out a lot.

I noticed a few weeks back a set of Ultra boards went for $1000 here. Then there are the Mike Parker mods, which may become available again soon.

Now, I too enjoy doing this stuff myself, but my question is have you done a "modify v buy" evaluation on some of the alternatives?
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16167
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ohmess wrote:
Hey Athanasios, I have a question for you on the mods in this thread.

Obviously, you have put a lot of time and energy into experimenting with these mods. And by the way, your instructions with the very clear pictures have helped me out a lot.

I noticed a few weeks back a set of Ultra boards went for $1000 here. Then there are the Mike Parker mods, which may become available again soon.

Now, I too enjoy doing this stuff myself, but my question is have you done a "modify v buy" evaluation on some of the alternatives?


This one reason I started this thread was to give a pictorial description of the maintenance thread started by MP, And add in
the addition of upgrading caps and other parts described in the linked threads from AVS by Jea hong Lea and McPherve at the beginning of this thread. Also the cost of the Mike parker mods are a bit to rich for my blood. even though I do not think I would be able to achieve the same level of performance as the MP video chain mods I think for most of us it will suffice. But if you are a die hard enthusiest and want the best form your Marquee his mods Are the best and Greg Eisemann is another option as his Barco mods are highly regard and recently he has spoken to me vis e-mail and want to help out on the Vim mods and give some secretes but not all. I might Ask greg for a set of boards to compare to the stock Vim and my own Moded VNB's . But If you want the best go with a pros Mods for the Video Chain as there is a lot of hours spent to get it right. Both Mike and Greg do good work and have good customer relations . I was actually going to offer my work to Curt and Mike for any over flow work they might have as I have gotten very good at board level work and my soldering work station is awesome for those small delicate parts. the Hot air gun is a must for this type of work.

But I love doing things for myself due the satisfaction I get knowing i did it, on my own, and many here feel the same.

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

One Smart Dog!!!

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HK-Steve



Joined: 15 Jul 2006
Posts: 849
Location: Switzerland

TV/Projector: Marquee 9500, Epson 8100


PostLink    Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone with a bit of common sense can go way past what MP has done. Thumbs Up Athanasios
Most has been documented here, and on AVS with the thoughts of members.

Just look out there, look at all of the chips and new technology has come along since the Marquee has been designed.


Certainly, LOT can be done to bring the performance of an already good projector, even further.


Cheers
Steve





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