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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY
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PaulB
Joined: 26 Oct 2007 Posts: 359 Location: Bonnie (but rainy) Scotland
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Link Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 5:24 pm Post subject: Re: VIM |
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Ohmess wrote: |
What do you use for grease? Does petroleum jelly work? |
Yep, Petroleum Jelly (Vaseline is the brand I used).
_________________ Paul
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geisemann Guest
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Link Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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I use Silicone heat sink compound. Vaseline might work ok just not sure the long term reliability and resistance to heat of this product as its designed as a short term item for skin.
You can order new strips from Mouser and that is what I do when doing a rebuild now its not as messy as all the grease. I use a new strip then put a thin layer of Silicone heat compound.
The issue I have had when researching fans is there are very few really any better than the original.
The issue if you look at it carefully is the newer " Quiet Fans" use a resistor anyways.
In standby you don't need much airflow.
Everyone doing marquee mods are doing the same thing from using foam to rubber isolation from the chassis. I know Barco uses rubber on its fans . Some use foam but I am not sure again the long term stability of foam. Foam tends to deteriorate quickly under pollution and heat.
My opinion is to keep it simple it simple and I have tryed a lot with custom fans and special systems and the simple seems to work so well. You have to see the air the fans push from the specs. Typically the quieter the fan the less air they move .
Drill out the holes for all the fans mount 4 rubber gromments.
Screw in with larger screws only 2 of them.
Then use 2 15-23 ohm resistors in series with each of the stock fans
Or if you get fancy what I do when someone orders the mods I use a simple Zeiner AMP in parellel with a Thermo resistor. The Zenier controls the voltage when low but kicks in the Thermo resistor when hi its a very simple circurt. The resistance depends on the how loud you can take.
So by lowering the voltage to the stock fans you are creating the same effect as a so called quiet fan.
I have done this many times and it lowers the power supply noise over 95%.
You cant even hear it run in standby and it moves quite a large volume of air to keep things cool.
www.eisemann-theater.com
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AnalogRocks Forum Moderator
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 26690 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Sony 1252Q, AMPRO 4000G
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Link Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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Nashou66 wrote: | yep i used the petroleum jelly.
Nashou |
This is the funniest thing I have read all day. Especially at the top of its own page.
Makes me wonder which thread I just walked in on
_________________ Tech support for nothing
CRT.
HD done right!
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WTS
Joined: 08 Mar 2006 Posts: 1276 Location: Calgary
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Link Posted: Fri Oct 24, 2008 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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That's the first time I've ever heard of using vaseline for heat compound, I'm sorry I just can't buy that it'll actually do the job. Either use proper heat sink paste or silicon pads meant for heatsink use.
_________________ Thanks
Walter
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY
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Link Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:13 am Post subject: |
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WTS wrote: | That's the first time I've ever heard of using vaseline for heat compound, I'm sorry I just can't buy that it'll actually do the job. Either use proper heat sink paste or silicon pads meant for heatsink use. |
Hi Walter, I got the petrolium jelly idea form Mike parker maintenance thread, here is the post link
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=1937363&postcount=177
And the quote:
Mike Parker wrote: | Next, you'll want to clean that heat sink surface insulator (denatured alcohol) and apply a very light film of petroleum jelly on that insulator. Before reinserting the board, use a ruler or other flat device and align each transistor so that each one would be perfectly inline with the heatsink surface. Now take each heat sink clamp and bend back for better tension. Do the same for the vertical and stimator boards (if it has stimator board). |
Athanasios
_________________ Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
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Arno P
Joined: 01 Jan 2007 Posts: 282 Location: The Netherlands
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Link Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 8:24 am Post subject: |
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WTS wrote: | That's the first time I've ever heard of using vaseline for heat compound, I'm sorry I just can't buy that it'll actually do the job. Either use proper heat sink paste or silicon pads meant for heatsink use. |
I agree, go for the real stuff. I expect that vaseline starts to drip off when it is heated (will look good when applied, but tricking aftersome time of use)
_________________ "Obviously you're not a golfer"
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radar
Joined: 05 Dec 2007 Posts: 72 Location: Sydney, Australia
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Link Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 9:27 am Post subject: |
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"The issue if you look at it carefully is the newer " Quiet Fans" use a resistor anyways.
In standby you don't need much airflow."
So... what you are saying is that add the resistor and that will make it quieter and also reduce airflow (abit)... and you are saying it doesn't need as much airflow as its putting out anyway? Is that correct?
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY
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Link Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 10:51 am Post subject: |
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radar wrote: | "The issue if you look at it carefully is the newer " Quiet Fans" use a resistor anyways.
In standby you don't need much airflow."
So... what you are saying is that add the resistor and that will make it quieter and also reduce airflow (abit)... and you are saying it doesn't need as much airflow as its putting out anyway? Is that correct? |
Yes thats what he means, I think both ways are ok , However, the fans I use work very well and ARE more quiet then using just the resistor. I do have a LVPS moded the same way Greg says and the Enermax fans are more quiet and have the same flow at 12 volts, i barely hear them in stand by but the flow is as strong in stanby as using the resistor on a powered up stock fan. I used my paper deflection measuring method. Tape a strip of paper on the outside of the marquee where the air exits the LVPS. turn it on and measure how far out the paper strip moves. i then put in the new fan and made sure it flowed out the same amount, By removing the grill pieces as in my pics it allowed for more flow also. I picked a fan that had more CFM then the stock fans because i have heard the PC fans are over spec'd.
I guess you can try both ways and see which you prefer. I have had this mod on my LVPS for more than a year with no issues at all, and i listen to music in my theater and sit next to the PJ and can not here them in stand by.
Athanasios
_________________ Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
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PaulB
Joined: 26 Oct 2007 Posts: 359 Location: Bonnie (but rainy) Scotland
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Link Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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Arno P wrote: | WTS wrote: | That's the first time I've ever heard of using vaseline for heat compound, I'm sorry I just can't buy that it'll actually do the job. Either use proper heat sink paste or silicon pads meant for heatsink use. |
I agree, go for the real stuff. I expect that vaseline starts to drip off when it is heated (will look good when applied, but tricking aftersome time of use) |
I don't think the Vaseline is being used as a heat compound as such, rather it is being used to keep the existing heat-pad strips from deteriorating. Only a very thin layer is used which keeps the heat-pad from drying out essentially. MP did state that proper heat compound can be used but I would imagine that could get quite messy whereas you don't really see the vaseline and is in such a small quantity it gets sort of absorbed into the heat strip.
_________________ Paul
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David_Web
Joined: 02 May 2007 Posts: 418 Location: Sweden
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Link Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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Cut four pieces of a rubber band and put it in each corner of the fan. Works really well. Did this for the belly fans.
The most sound problem I have now is the sound of air. Especially the belly fans. I guess putting a resistor their won't hurt that much as the air it not warm anyway. A little decrease in airflow will do a lot for turbulence sound.
It might have to do with the way I have the PJ mounted as the fans are directly visible, the bottom plate under the fans is also removed.
_________________ SNR of people are ridiculously low.
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY
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Link Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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I guess the best way would be to put the thin layer of Vaseline on the entire heat sink insulator and then use the heat sink compound directly on each Output chip. This way you get the best of both worlds. I went with just the Petroleum jelly and had no dripping from heat, and the heat sink is more hot then before I cleaned everything all up.
Nashou
_________________ Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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geisemann Guest
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Link Posted: Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:55 pm Post subject: heat sink pads |
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These heat sink pads have created all kinds of problems with high hours on many crt projectors.
Espically in Barco. I have seen when they get old and can actually form small holes.
The Barco 701 and 708 were so famous for these problems its almost standard to replace all the heat sink pads I had 10 once I sold where 9 of them had shorting issues with the heat sink pads at 3-5k hours.
I was working on one barco 1209s Horz card and it kept having weird shorting issues. It drove me nuts so I pulled out all the horz drive tranistors and found that it was arcing ever so slightly causing a short.
In a ehome once I was at a customers house and they had this weird convergance drift issue. I replaced the marquee heat strip all along the rear heat sink and it never came back.
So I do hightly recommend to replace this strip if you have over 10k hours or if the transistos are HV or over 100V.
IF they are LV then maybe you can get away with just using the compound.
www.eisemann-theater.com
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stefuel
Joined: 07 Mar 2006 Posts: 3353 Location: Green Harbor MA USA
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Link Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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You can buy small tubes of heat transfer paste at auto parts stores as many late model autos require this paste when replacing certain electronic parts. I think the tube I have is from Belden.
_________________ Chip
A Barco is only a AmPro with training wheels
Card carrying member of the AVS chain gang.
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Joust
Joined: 05 May 2006 Posts: 2431 Location: Almonte, Ontario, Canada
TV/Projector: Marquee 8501LC
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Link Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2008 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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the best place to get it these days is a computer shop. you can buy a small tube of very good stuff for use on a CPU heat sink.
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Ohmess
Joined: 11 Sep 2008 Posts: 242 Location: Vienna, VA
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Link Posted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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I have an existing heat pad strip on my heat sink, and have both vaseline and heat transfer paste on hand. Questions:
Should I replace the heat pad strip? If so, are there any particular products people have had good experiences with?
Alternatively, should I remove the strip and replace it with heat transfer paste?
Or, should I just put a layer of vaseline over the existing strip?
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY
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Ohmess
Joined: 11 Sep 2008 Posts: 242 Location: Vienna, VA
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Link Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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Hey Athanasios, I have a question for you on the mods in this thread.
Obviously, you have put a lot of time and energy into experimenting with these mods. And by the way, your instructions with the very clear pictures have helped me out a lot.
I noticed a few weeks back a set of Ultra boards went for $1000 here. Then there are the Mike Parker mods, which may become available again soon.
Now, I too enjoy doing this stuff myself, but my question is have you done a "modify v buy" evaluation on some of the alternatives?
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Nashou66
Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 16171 Location: West Seneca NY
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Link Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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Ohmess wrote: | Hey Athanasios, I have a question for you on the mods in this thread.
Obviously, you have put a lot of time and energy into experimenting with these mods. And by the way, your instructions with the very clear pictures have helped me out a lot.
I noticed a few weeks back a set of Ultra boards went for $1000 here. Then there are the Mike Parker mods, which may become available again soon.
Now, I too enjoy doing this stuff myself, but my question is have you done a "modify v buy" evaluation on some of the alternatives? |
This one reason I started this thread was to give a pictorial description of the maintenance thread started by MP, And add in
the addition of upgrading caps and other parts described in the linked threads from AVS by Jea hong Lea and McPherve at the beginning of this thread. Also the cost of the Mike parker mods are a bit to rich for my blood. even though I do not think I would be able to achieve the same level of performance as the MP video chain mods I think for most of us it will suffice. But if you are a die hard enthusiest and want the best form your Marquee his mods Are the best and Greg Eisemann is another option as his Barco mods are highly regard and recently he has spoken to me vis e-mail and want to help out on the Vim mods and give some secretes but not all. I might Ask greg for a set of boards to compare to the stock Vim and my own Moded VNB's . But If you want the best go with a pros Mods for the Video Chain as there is a lot of hours spent to get it right. Both Mike and Greg do good work and have good customer relations . I was actually going to offer my work to Curt and Mike for any over flow work they might have as I have gotten very good at board level work and my soldering work station is awesome for those small delicate parts. the Hot air gun is a must for this type of work.
But I love doing things for myself due the satisfaction I get knowing i did it, on my own, and many here feel the same.
Athanasios
_________________ Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher
"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan
One Smart Dog!!!
Marquee High Performance Bellows now shipping!!
Marquee Modifications and Performance Enhancement
Marquee C-element and Bellow removal
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HK-Steve
Joined: 15 Jul 2006 Posts: 849 Location: Switzerland
TV/Projector: Marquee 9500, Epson 8100
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Link Posted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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Anyone with a bit of common sense can go way past what MP has done. Athanasios
Most has been documented here, and on AVS with the thoughts of members.
Just look out there, look at all of the chips and new technology has come along since the Marquee has been designed.
Certainly, LOT can be done to bring the performance of an already good projector, even further.
Cheers
Steve
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