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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote


        Register to remove this ad. It's free!
Os-cons are just a very good cap from what i read, low ESR and ESL and less failure. i also read they are great for filtering. but any low esr cap will be good,like the FC series from panasonic.

Athanasios

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PaulB



Joined: 26 Oct 2007
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Location: Bonnie (but rainy) Scotland


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aha, thats good news! Thank you. I was going mad trying to find these Oscons.


And no, I'm not modding 'til I get the pj fully setup Laughing

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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think i got mine from farnell. when you do a search use organic polymer insted of os con, just do the regular 47uf electrolytic cap search then use organic polymer , then after that choose the higest voltage. 40 was the highest as oscons dont go much higer.

Athanasios

EDIt Just got home and looked for the caps, they are not oscons sorry but they look just like them thas why i must have got confused. heres the farnell link:

47uf 40v

After just reading the data sheet i chose them for their high ripple current and they are good for filtering.

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PaulB



Joined: 26 Oct 2007
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Location: Bonnie (but rainy) Scotland


PostLink    Posted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 8:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent mate, even better Thumbs Up
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1031



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
Posts: 657
Location: Finland


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://fi.farnell.com/jsp/search/browse.jsp;jsessionid=FI0QTG4B00YBCCQLCIRZK0Q?N=1000224+2916&_requestid=298420

That link shows Farnell selection of os-cons.



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PaulB



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PostLink    Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats the ones I saw on the UK site as well. Where I got unstuck was that they didn't have any 40v ones, the highest being only 30v. I'll get a good Panny FC instead!
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jarmo thanks for the PDFs on the Oscons, I couldnt find them. Oscons are a very good cap from that liturature but as it says some circuits they are not good for. Having said that, do you think on those power rails on the CLM they might be more harm than good. I dont think they have any time variables, that would come into play right at each chip that may use timed pulses correct?

Athanasios

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1031



Joined: 22 Mar 2006
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Location: Finland


PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:
do you think on those power rails on the CLM they might be more harm than good. I dont think they have any time variables, that would come into play right at each chip that may use timed pulses correct?

Athanasios


If you looked those Esr/freq. tables of os-cons vs. Tants&elyts, os-cons have lower esr at much wider freq. range. So they are wery good for widerange noise suppression (but very expensive) I have os-cons at near multipinconnector on clm (there where voltages enter to clm)

"I dont think they have any time variables"
Every cap has that "time variable" I think you are referring that startup problem?
You can think it this way: you got emty car battery, you start charging it->it takes ,say 6 amps. When battery is chargin that current goes lower and voltage gets higher. That takes time, same happens on every circuit that has caps on voltage lines. Lest say you got 100 caps on clm at +5volt line (each 100nF) so there is 10uf total. Lvps has its own esr on +5volt supply (very small) and when lvps starts, it puts that +5volt up and then it takes moment when those 100 caps gets charged. Then we replace those 100 caps to 47uF ones and got 4700uF total. Now that "chargin up" time is much longer. Same happens if you trye charge 10 car batterys at same time...it takes longer than chargin one battery.

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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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PostLink    Posted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont have any start up problems so far. The info sheets also say that with Os Cons you can go to a lower capacitance than when using a regular electrolyitc cap. This is only for filtering caps right not power reserve caps I would assume. I wonder if changing the caps near the connector to Os cons would get rid of the Squiggly vertical line problem? I will try it tonight.


Athanasios

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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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PostLink    Posted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I gave the Chips another cleaning on the CLM and also checked out the H-Drive signal on the HDM thats is fed from the DPB and all seems fine and as mysteriously as the squigglies appeared they are now gone again. Seems cleaning the chips one more time has helped. lets hope they stay away for good !!

Athanasios

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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:33 pm    Post subject: LVPS Cap Upgrade and Mods By JeaHong Lee Reply with quote

Ok guys I Have started on a cap upgrade on my LVPS, I replaced all electrolytics with 105 temp higher wattage and a few I raised the capacitance. Also two Carbon comps I replaced according a blog i found From JeaHong Lee, I put it into a .doc file and will add it here. Also 1031(Jarmo) made a list of parts he used for the LVPS, I used all panasonic FC series , Xicon Low ESR caps , CORNELL DUBILIER SEK series and UNITED CHEMI-CON EKMG series i mainly went in that order of Priority. I'll get to my usual style of the thread but wanted to give those who plan to this time to order some of the parts listed by Jarmo and ones mentioned in Jea Hong Lees Blog i reformatted.

I tried to add the JeaHong lee file but for some reason it wont upload so I'll add a link to my download page.

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One thing I noticed first after doing the Fan half of the LVPS is that the voltages were dead on. Before some were off by half a volt or so.

More to come......

EDIT

Here is a parts list I used, I always order a couple extra incase I mess one up and I orderd for two power supplies
so you should count the number you need for your project.Also my numbers might be higher because i also orderd
for the CVA so they may have had similar parts and they be listed from my order sheet where i am copying
this info:

Ok parts list from Mouser for two LVPS's.


Mouser #: 140-ESRL50V47-RC
Mfr. #: 140-ESRL50V47-RC
Desc.: Low ESR Radial Electrolytic Capacitors 50V 47uF 105C
Qty: 8

Mouser #: 140-ESRL100V1.0-RC
Mfr. #: 140-ESRL100V1.0-RC
Desc.: Low ESR Radial Electrolytic Capacitors 100V 1.0uF 105C
Qty: 20

Mouser #: 660-MOS3CT631R750J
Mfr. #: MOS3CT631R750J
Desc.: Metal Oxide Resistors 3W 75 5%
RoHS: RoHS Compliant
Qty: 5


Mouser #: 505-MKS4.47/100/10P
Mfr. #: MKS4-.47/100/10P10
Desc.: Polyester Film Capacitors 100V .47uF 10%
Qty: 6


Mouser #: 505-MKS21.0/63/5
Mfr. #: MKS2-1.0/63/5
Desc.: Polyester Film Capacitors 63V 1uF 5%
Qty: 14

Newark/Farnel parts list

Newark # 25M9202
PANASONIC EEUFC2A220
Description: CAPACITOR, 22UF 100V CAPACITOR
Series FC
Qty: 3

Newark# 04M9025
PANASONIC EEUFM1H471
Description: CAPACITOR, RADIAL 50V 470UF CAPACITOR
Series FM
Qty: 10

Newark# 25M9201
PANASONIC EEUFC2A101
Description: CAPACITOR, 100UF 100V CAPACITOR
Series FC
Qty: 5

Newark# 25M9184
PANASONIC EEUFC1J101
Description: CAPACITOR, 100UF 63V CAPACITOR
Series: FC
Qty: 12


Newark# 25M9173
PANASONIC EEUFC1H100
Description: CAPACITOR, 10UF 50V CAPACITOR
SERIES: FC
Qty: 20

Newark# 72K6696
CORNELL
DUBILIER SEK2R2M050ST
Description: Capacitor,2.2UF 50V CAPACITOR
Series SEK
Qty: 6

Newark# 23K3571
UNITED
CHEMI-CON EKMG101ELL4R7ME11D
Description: Capacitance:4.7uF, 100V
Series: EKMG
Qty: 20

Newark# 80K8401
PANASONIC EEUFC1V221
Description: CAPACITOR, 220UF 35V CAPACITOR
Series: FC
Qty: 5


Newark# 08C2473
CORNELL
DUBILIER: SEK330M250ST
Description: Capacitor 33uF, 250V
Series: SEK
Qty: 6

Newark# 04M9018
PANASONIC EEUFM1E222L
Description: CAPACITOR, RADIAL 25V 2200UF
Series: FM
Qty: 6


Newark# 25M9170
PANASONIC EEUFC1E472
Description: CAPACITOR, 4700UF 25V CAPACITOR
\Series: FC
Qty 5

I think that is all the parts some you can only order in minimum lots of 5 .
Remeber this was copied from my order so my numbers are basically doubled except for where its a minimum of 5.
Look at your power supply and count the values. for same value with different voltage i just orderd the largest voltage, should actually help since Higher voltages can handle Higher ripple currents.
My eyes hurt now from all this work ! and I still have to write up the procedure!

Athanasios



lvps caps etc.xls
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LVPS cap Listing from 1031 this is for a general Idea of what is needed

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Arno P



Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 282
Location: The Netherlands


PostLink    Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 8:41 pm    Post subject: Re: LVPS Cap Upgrade and Mods By JeaHong Lee Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:
Ok guys I Have started on a cap upgrade on my LVPS, I replaced all electrolytics with 105 temp higher wattage and a few I raised the capacitance. Also two Carbon comps I replaced according a blog i found From JeaHong Lee, I put it into a .doc file and will add it here. Also 1031(Jarmo) made a list of parts he used for the LVPS, I used all panasonic FC series , Xicon Low ESR caps , CORNELL DUBILIER SEK series and UNITED CHEMI-CON EKMG series i mainly went in that order of Priority. I'll get to my usual style of the thread but wanted to give those who plan to this time to order some of the parts listed by Jarmo and ones mentioned in Jea Hong Lees Blog i reformatted.

I tried to add the JeaHong lee file but for some reason it wont upload so I'll add a link to my download page.

Marquee stuff for Download


One thing I noticed first after doing the Fan half of the LVPS is that the voltages were dead on. Before some were off by hals a volt or so.

More to come......

Athanasios


Great ! Wink

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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
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PostLink    Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:21 pm    Post subject: LVPS Cap Upgrade also Mods by JeaHong Lee Reply with quote

LVPS Cap Upgrade also Mods by JeaHong Lee

We are going to replace all the aged electrolytic capacitors with newer Low ESR caps
of same value(except for one) but with either same voltage or higher. Use the caps listed
in the Above parts list post or do research on different series caps and look for high temp
low ESR if possible. The FC and FM series from Panasonic are what would be ideal for the entire
Unit but some values are hard to find in small quantities from suppliers the FC was their best
cap but it was improved upon by the FM series so if you want to spend a bit more try to find
the FM values but most places only have certain values. The Xicon low esr caps can also be
used, these were caps I have seen used by PSI in there Reference 8 PJ In certain boards.
When those cant be found I went to the CD SEK series caps and Chem-con EKMG series.

While you have the power supply apart it is an ideal time for some sound proofing and maybe
the fan mod. I lined the inside with Dynamat vibration and sound deadener And also acoustical
open cell foam to trap noise.
I used Enermax Enobal bearing silent fan 120mm size. Very quiet 16 db 12 volt fans they were a
bit to tall for my power supply bay so I had to put the table saw to the edges and cut them
down on two sides. I was able to keep the mounting holes where I used rubber fan mounts instead
of screws. These can be found at most Quiet PC web sites.
For the fans I built an easy power supply step down converter to go from 24V to 12v.

12v step down converter Schematic courtesy of 1031(Jarmo)



Enermax Enlobal Bering Silent fan 120mm fans shaved down top and bottom to fit in power supply bay
16 db !!! Mount with Rubber fan mounts, not screws if you can.



12 volt power supply, notice how I cut the metal case to allow full air flow of 120mm fan
Mount PCb board to case.




Dynamat Sound deadener and accoustic foam 1/4 inch thick.






Next the caps.

Athanasios

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Nashou66



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PostLink    Posted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:22 pm    Post subject: LVPS cap Upgrade and mods by Jea Hong Lee Reply with quote

Now to the Caps and Jea Hong lee Mods.

Most of the caps have hot glue on them, probably to keep them in place and isolate them from
vibration , any one know for sure cause i'd like to know.

you can separate the glue from the caps by cutting them apart before de soldering them
or desolder a set of caps that are glued together and remove the whole lot at once. both are a pain in the Arse.

Cutting apart some caps

Be carfull not to cut any other part, like this coil winding near these caps !!



Replace all caps with same value but the higher voltages i did all the biggest first then on the the
smallest, I wont bore you with pics of every cap removal and install, most of you are experts by
now right ! Wink

The cap that is used in the heater voltage circuit is a 1000uf 10 volt. Jeahong lee says its too
small for three big heaters in the tubes so he up'd them to 2200uf 25 volt caps, I used the FM
series.


Empty location for install of 2200uf FM series cap.



JeaHong also replaced two Carbon Comp resistors similar to the ones in the HVPS
And the VNB's. Instead of Ceramics he Used Metal Oxide types of 75 Ohm 3watt.
these are R123 and R133. Paul B said his did not have the carbon comps.
the four supplies I have dating from 1992 boards to 1997 all have the carbon comps.
So check yours before ordering.

Metal Oxide at R133 and Carbon Comp in R123 waiting to be replaced.



Next he replaced all the ceramic output caps( they might be tants?) near the connector
on the back of the power supply,C68,C62,C88,C96,C112,C103,C144, and C149
with high quality Wima film caps!!
Here is a pic of C144 and C149(forgot to take pic of un-moded outputs Sad )


Here is where its tricky, the new Wima caps are much larger than the caps we are replacing, so
for some I had to use the other hole for the next cap, if you look on the underside you'll see how
this is possible as you using the common ground plane. And you have to be creative with
how you bend the short leads on the Wima's to reach the holes. this is where a lead bending
tool comes in handy. For C68 You have to bend the leads under and to the center
of the cap to fit in its respective holes and C62 needs even more of an angled bend to reposition
it out of the way for putting in C88.
Now for the other two in the following pic C88 and C96.
You have to use the other caps hole, if you look carefully you see how they are slanted so that the
one end of C88 is not going to its hole but to the left side of C96's hole and the left lead of C96 is
going to the the right hole of C88. Make sense? Shocked

C68 and C62 are .47uf 100v the rest are 1uf 63 Volt

Creative placement of Wima caps



C112 and C103 are easy, but C144 and 149 need more work.
I had to bend the lead for C149 in opposite angled positions to get it like the pic shows and for C144
I had to use a pice of cut lead to make a jumper to reach one end of the lead. take your time
to do these, if you have trouble you could scratch away at the protective coating where C144 is located
and attach it to the left more so C149 can be installed easier with out the Jumper lead.

1uf 63v Wimas with lead jumper for C144.



All Wima caps In !!! Wheeeeeouuu!




Now this is just one side, don't forget to do the other half too!!!

Athanasios

_________________
Don't blame your underwear for your crooked ass~ unknown Greek philosopher


"Republicans believe every day is the Fourth of July, but the Democrats believe every day is April 15." --- President Reagan

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PaulB



Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 359
Location: Bonnie (but rainy) Scotland


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Listing the parts required and their respective part numbers etc makes it a lot easier for us non-techie folks Athanasios, many thanks for taking the time and effort to do so.

There are variations of LVPS kicking around, the LVPS in my '96 pj does not have the carbon comps as shown in JeaHong's blog - just a heads up in case anyone's not sure.

And no, I've not soldered anything since you last berated me, I'm just checking!

I am desperate to see the VIM mods, just thought I'd mention that - thats the final piece of the complex puzzle we are gradually winding our way through and I can't wait to get there Thumbs Up

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Nashou66



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Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes the Vim upgrades! I have only done them to the old style vim(2006-03p) so far and that vim has developed that blanking problem I cant figure out. I dont think it was anything from the upgrades but i want to make sure. I probably wont get to upgrading my Vims till after I get my blend running, I plan on that being the last Mod to do. i want to be able to compare the upgrades on the blend. But if you or anyone wants to get strated you can do the Chip swap for the RGB op amps use the Intersil EL5166 chips, they use the exact same value feedback resistors so a direct swap should be fine, later the buffer caps can be beefed up to what the spec sheets recomend for that chip. the only other upgrades are a few of the Tl071's and MC34084 chips need to be replaced with the less noise one as used on other boards, and the power supply rails near the conectors. But as I said I have not doen this yet to my 2035-02p/03p vims yet.

Also glad you finally are getting the hang of doing the CPC magnets.

Athanasios

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PaulB



Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 359
Location: Bonnie (but rainy) Scotland


PostLink    Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nashou66 wrote:
But if you or anyone wants to get strated you can do the Chip swap for the RGB op amps use the Intersil EL5166 chips, they use the exact same value feedback resistors so a direct swap should be fine, later the buffer caps can be beefed up to what the spec sheets recomend for that chip. the only other upgrades are a few of the Tl071's and MC34084 chips need to be replaced .
Athanasios


Erm, well..., cough, already done in my mad soldering moment a while back Embarassed


Nashou66 wrote:

Also glad you finally are getting the hang of doing the CPC magnets.



I am as much "getting the hang of doing the CPC magnets" as I would enjoy swallowing razor blades ! Not had a chance to progress any further with them, been busy this week with repairs to the house and gardening - good weather makes work for idol hands Laughing

I thought you had finally resolved your VIM issue, what a pain in the butt that is!

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Nashou66



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PostLink    Posted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CAP UPGRADES AND MODS BY JEA HONG LEE ARE UP FOR VIEWING

Athanasios

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htguy1



Joined: 30 Jul 2008
Posts: 99



PostLink    Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:19 pm    Post subject: inductors.... Reply with quote

Hi,

Great thread! It has been a long time since I modded my 9500, but I am starting to get the bug again.

I noticed that several pages back someone asked what an inductor does/is. FOr an analogy, think of a river. The inductor is like a damn that stops the flow of water, but it only stops the flow of a certain speed of water flow. Based on the h/uh rating of the inductor and the implementation. It will let slow moving water go by but once it gets moving too fast it clamps down and resists the flow.

Ok now back to signals. The noise we are trying to kill in generated by rapid changes in power consumption of ics, switch mode power supplies etc. You can actually see the noise level with an oscope. (Very cool) the Inductor causes a high impedence (kind of like resistance, but for signals, not dc power) to a certain frequence of signal. SO for a DC power rail, we dont have to worry about filtering too much out of the stream, you don't want any! I'm a bit rusty and don't have my electronics books with me on vacation right now, so I might get this wrong, am example of agood filter is a LC filter. L=inductance C=capacitance the inductor impedes the siganl you do not want and the capacitor sends it to ground. You select the frequency you want to take out by adjusting the values of L and C. You can read more on wiki...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RC_circuit for a more detailed desc. (Some of which is way over my head Wink

When you start connectind to signal circuits, you have to be careful you do not filter the signal you want to let through! (Look up the JVC 3000k d-vhs vcr threads. They spent hours and hours modding those because JVC used too agressive of a filter on the video chain and caused a degredation of the signal.

I am not an engineer, so I had fun trying different ferrites, inductors and LC circuits on my Marquee and then hooking up the scope and seeing what went missing from the power rails! (Very cool) It does make a big difference when you take out the noise from the power rails on each board.

BTW I had really good luck with some video opamps from National Semiconductor. LMH6701, or LMH 6702 I think.

God bless...

Mark
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Nashou66



Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 16170
Location: West Seneca NY


PostLink    Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome Mark!! Great to have you on board. I still have to do the testing of noise and the stuff i have done is just on theory so far with the inductors I have been lazy and need to make another batch of extender cards so it will be easier to test those power rails.

If anyone else has things to add, I, and the rest of us would appreciate it as this is a learning experience for all of us here. Besides lowering noise we are trying to increase the useful life of our Projectors by changing to newer parts and we learn a bit more of how they work, so if time comes to trouble shoot we have a better understanding of what may have gone wrong.

I really like what i have seen so far using the panasonic FC series and the FM, I plan to go back to the focus board and neck board and find caps for those from the FC/FM series, and possible get WIMA caps for all the Film box styles in the PJ. Like i said before this is addicting for me !!!
when I get the parts for the extender boards I will take pics and list the parts, I only wish they made a slightly longer striped PCB board than the 160mm one i am using another 15 mm would have been great.

And while we were on the LVPS cap upgrade i found a great piece on repairing SMPS's :

SMPS repair Info/resource

Athanasios

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Last edited by Nashou66 on Wed Jul 30, 2008 7:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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