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1 Million to 1 Dynamic CR on a Plasma?

 
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WanMan




Joined: 19 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:20 am    Post subject: 1 Million to 1 Dynamic CR on a Plasma? Reply with quote


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WanMan




Joined: 19 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the need to pass a law requiring 3rd party evaluations in order to make such claims should be instilled. Unfortunately, that requires the majority of consumers to see value in such a law. But, when the majority of consumers are just cows buying Bose and Monster Cables it will continue to afford environments for virii like this to sustain their marketing existence in.

Curious, what measuring instrument available to consumers can measure that kind of CR ratio?

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perisoft




Joined: 29 Aug 2007
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Location: Ithaca, NY


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WanMan wrote:
I think the need to pass a law requiring 3rd party evaluations in order to make such claims should be instilled. Unfortunately, that requires the majority of consumers to see value in such a law. But, when the majority of consumers are just cows buying Bose and Monster Cables...


...and 96khz audio... Wink

Anyway, for contrast levels like that you need either insane brightness or incredible black level. Even if the off pixels were really full black I think you'd have a hard time achieving that just from the reflected light from the room! I'm guessing this is just a theoretical calculation, if it's not just pulled out of somebody's ass. Why's it 1,000,000 to 1, and not 1,240,000 or 960,000? Right. It just happens to be a round number...

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cyantist




Joined: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 2
Location: Kamloops, BC


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sony is also touting 1,000,000:1 CR on their new OLED displays...
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fireanimal




Joined: 17 Jul 2007
Posts: 231
Location: Stayner, ON


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

perisoft wrote:


...and 96khz audio... Wink


Not on this agian are you......The other thread went no where so you are going to start here?

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perisoft




Joined: 29 Aug 2007
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Location: Ithaca, NY


PostLink    Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fireanimal wrote:
perisoft wrote:


...and 96khz audio... Wink


Not on this agian are you......The other thread went no where so you are going to start here?


Must be the Wink didn't show up for you.

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WanMan




Joined: 19 Mar 2006
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PostLink    Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 11:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess they'll use: if the dumb cows are too stupid to know better then we should be allowed to lie in marketing. Even if theoretical, I'd like to see the paperwork on the theory.
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perisoft




Joined: 29 Aug 2007
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PostLink    Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WanMan wrote:
I guess they'll use: if the dumb cows are too stupid to know better then we should be allowed to lie in marketing. Even if theoretical, I'd like to see the paperwork on the theory.


I'm a little fuzzy on that, too. If you're assuming absolute black, you should have infinite contrast no matter how dim the white is; the ratio is still infinite. Since they're claiming absolute black (ie: off), they should be able to say infinite contrast. But the same should be true of CRT projectors - at least if they're set up well. Although I guess they have a little bit of excitation if they're pumped up enough to get the lumen output they're rated for (I'm guessing their specs are generally more accurate given that they're sold in large part for technical use).

The other issue is - how black is the surface itself? If you have pixels that turn off completely, but the substrate is 18% gray, your contrast is obviously not so good at any sane brightness level. So, at this point, shouldn't that mean that contrast is essentially a measure of the substrate color?

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Person99




Joined: 09 Mar 2006
Posts: 4901
Location: Flower Mound, TX


PostLink    Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

perisoft wrote:
But the same should be true of CRT projectors - at least if they're set up well.


Actually no. If you were to actually lower your black floor to even .0000001 ft-Lamberts, you will be crushing the hell out of blacks. You likely might not even be able to see 10 IRE as any different than 0 IRE. A CRT cannot be correctly set up to have a completely black black. Our physical world won't let it work. The gamma mods are an attempt to help us get closer, but they still can't achieve that.

As far as the 1,000,000:1 CR, Brightside was demoing tech that did it like 2 years ago. It is quite possible.

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perisoft




Joined: 29 Aug 2007
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PostLink    Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd still like to know what the practical limits on human vision in this area are. Of course we can perceive HUGE contrast differences with very, very bright sources, but right now displays can't achieve very high brightness (ie, lighting up the room like a sunbeam brightness; headlights on screen being as bright as headlights in real life). So, you can have that million to one contrast, but what good does that do when you're only using 5% of the eye's dynamic range anyway? Can we even perceive million to one dynamic contrast with a relatively dim display?
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WanMan




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PostLink    Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I do not do research on other themed sites so I have no idea how something like this can achieve 1,000,000:1 contrast. Are they able to control individual pixel backlighting?
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perisoft




Joined: 29 Aug 2007
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PostLink    Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WanMan wrote:
Well, I do not do research on other themed sites so I have no idea how something like this can achieve 1,000,000:1 contrast. Are they able to control individual pixel backlighting?


Oled is light emitting, not transmitting, so they can turn pixels totally off. Plasma requires the elements to be precharged so they're always on just a little - older ones like mine have 5 percent gray blacks compared to the black level of the powered off screen surface itself.
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