CurtPalme.com Home Theater Forum

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:18 am Post subject:

I run 5 Marantz mono block amp's. My front speaker's are rated at 80 watt's and I run 200W into them. They are MUCH happier than being on my old Denon reciever which had 60 W.P.C., likwise my centre channel is rated for 125 watt's and I run 200 into it. My surounds are rated 75 and I run 125 watt's into them. Sounds great, been running it that way for almost 10 years.

Tom.W · Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 6637

Amplifier clipping can cause serious damage to a perfectly good speaker...

http://sound.westhost.com/clipping.htm

**kal** · Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:45 am Post subject:

**AnalogRocks** · Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:01 am Post subject:

Increasing the input to 1 volt managed to get the breaker to pop, but not before the fork screeched out some horrible sound (yes a fork will reproduce 1 kHz if you put enough voltage across it and current though it). After about 3 seconds, there was a click, the fork silenced and the little round breaker popped up on top of the amp.

LMAO that's great!

jask · Joined: 17 Mar 2006 Posts: 10165 Location: kamloops BC

Kal, those pictures.....porn

got more?

**kal** · Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:37 pm Post subject:

I don't know what it is, but I love to to look at pictures of beefy amps too.... Wink

Here are some more: http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=115486

Person99 · Joined: 09 Mar 2006 Posts: 4901 Location: Flower Mound, TX

jask · Joined: 17 Mar 2006 Posts: 10165 Location: kamloops BC

not to hack you or your purchase, but I find that the background noise on most of those systems usually keeps me from turning it up to clipping levels.

enigma · Joined: 20 Feb 2008 Posts: 24 Location: Australia

Hey Kal, if you like beefy amps, look up Halcro DM-88. it is made here in Australia and internationally acclaimed. It is a monoblock so imagine one of these per speaker!.

Af far as amps go, the transformer is the heart, there is no way a single 200w or 300w transformer in a mini system or receiver can give you 100w across 5 or 7 channels all at once. Don't forget, these transformers also have to power the dacs and other boards in the unit as well.

There are some basic rules on ensuring you have a genuine hi fi sounding surround sound!

Match speakers and amps, a 10 to 20wpc amp with speakers that have a sensitivity of 100db & above can be as loud as a 100w per channel amp with speakers of 86db sensitivity. Those of you with low powered amps look for high sensitive speakers, but remember what Kurt said earlier about klipping - the higher the sensitivity the better. You may be surprised to see that quality low wattage amps and high sensitive speakers are expensive as the usually have tubes and horns. If you see one, such as a single ended triode tube amp, you'll note that it may only be 5w per channel, but the power consumption can be 300w.

Get good quality amps with solid transformers and high current. Also, as Kurt also said, capacitors store current, good amps will have two ore more large capacitors, or several small ones. Now you know why good amps are heavy.

I use a pre amp processor for the surround processing and then have a monoblock (single channel) amplifier on each channel to drive each speaker. Each amp is high current and only 50w per channel on 90db sensitive speakers. I have 100wpc amps that i sometimes use also. In this configuration, each amp is independent and does not rob current from the other under load.

The result is clearer sound and deep strong bass.

By the way, my amp that runs the two front speakers are tube, sweet beautifull sound from several glowing bottles. To put this in perspective, the difference for me with my tube & solid state is the difference you guys see with CRT & digital projectors.

That is why i'm hooked on crt, they are basically tubes of another sort.

Remember, movies will always sound better on a system that was set up for hifi rather than just home theatre alone.

jask · Joined: 17 Mar 2006 Posts: 10165 Location: kamloops BC

Enigma what are you using for your front amps/speakers? and are you doing any bass or low frequency supplementation? Tube audio is fantastic for a lot of music but most modern movies need more low end punch than most tube systems can provide.

there was a post a while back on another forum of a rack full of (home built) tube amps for the authors home theater.... the pics with the lights off and all those tubes glowing was very nice!!

EDIT:
Never mind, I just saw your post in the home theater thread....... now post some pics!!!!
question still stands on the low frequency support...

enigma · Joined: 20 Feb 2008 Posts: 24 Location: Australia

Hi Jask,

Excellent question and precisely goes back to why it is so important to match speakers and amps correctly.

My set up is effecivley a hifi system and home cinema put together and as all the amps are seperate, i can change the combinaton around. It is only 5.1 at the moment, to upgrate to 7.1, i will need a new processor, but only have to add a stereo amp.

All speakers are Focal/JM Lab with one slight exception. The two front ones are focal drivers (same as others) but housed in 30mm thick cabinets made in australia and have 5kg crossovers. They have been made by an Australian designer (osborn).

This designer's speakers have been compared to JM Lab's own designs at CES Las Vegas, and JM Lab's own reps were impressed.

What this means in real terms, apart from an amazing sound, they have an incredible deep solid tight bass as the cabinet is very rigid. I have no problem with bass. A reviewer in the states actually used 5 of them with no subwoofer & was amazed that there was no deficiency.

The amps i am using in current setup are;

Sony TAE9000es pre/processor
Copland Valve Pre
Copland Valve power (stereo) - front L & R
Musical Fidelity Xa50 monoblock front centre
Musical Fidelity Xas100 monoblock - rear L & R

My subwoofer is a Klipsch KSW12 - i never use this in stereo as it spoils it, only use it in multichannel.

Going back to your orig question, Yes there is a difference in the bass between the Copland power amp and Musical Fidelity solid state power amp. Valve amps generally have softer bass and is sometimes why people prefer solid state.

The Musical Fidelity is deeper and more solid, i used to have it on the front speakers. But the copland blows it away every where else. The difference in bass is really trivial at the end of the day.

My Copland is neutral/touch warm, but behaves like a solid state amp. It has large output transformers, large torodial power supply and large capacitors - this is why it blends in well with the solid state amps i have.

Some other valve amp brands may at times not be the right match.

Home theatre needs subwoofer/s as there is a descrete channel of audio for them. In home theatre mode i have the whole thing balanced and working in harmony.

I intend to post photos soon, i'm just doing the last lot of alterations to the room which will take about a month (it is partially dis-assembled). Will show everyone what i have been rambling on about.

P.S. - how do i attach a picture in here?

KaFFeslurp · Joined: 25 Apr 2008 Posts: 1

perisoft · Joined: 29 Aug 2007 Posts: 2920 Location: Ithaca, NY

enigma · Joined: 20 Feb 2008 Posts: 24 Location: Australia

Don't forget some pretty lights on the front and maybe a badge, something like B&O, then flog it off for 25 grand! and you know what, some knob will by it and get such a big ego over the boat anchor he just bought.

If anyone is serious about Hi-Fi, i'm happy to lend some advice.

rpruen · Posted: Fri May 16, 2008 3:18 pm Post subject:

perisoft · Joined: 29 Aug 2007 Posts: 2920 Location: Ithaca, NY

For some reason my Technics AVR gets hot as a vegas afternoon whether it's pounding out techno or sitting idle, too. I doubt it's for the same reasons, though. Man, does that thing get hot, though. You have to be careful not to lean on it.